how are you doing? i am good. this is long, this is weaw.good afternoon... this is our amazing friend and translator. hi marcel! good morning... afternoon. so we are back here to rainbow sky association
nightclubs in bangkok, this is a clinic and also an organization, and they do an amazing work on hiv they have hiv test here and i am gonna talk to two gay muslims, they feel more comfortable to be here. so that is why we are here. let's check it out. we have been talking throughout this journey about faith and religion and
i would like to ask you if you are religious if you consider yourself religious or if you have any faith very, he is very religious. if he was not working on the field of business he would become a religion teacher because he studies religion for 20 years and he is muslim, right? yes... pure muslim. he can answer every regulation, every rule
details of muslims every question you have or any doubt and are you also gay? yes. and how is it? do you feel comfortable in your religion to be gay? according to religion being gay is not good. it is bad, really bad but he also categorizes it into two parts: if you're gay and you dress like a woman
that is bad, you cannot, must not if you are gay, but you still dress like a man you will not get punishment from god and what about intersex? when they are born with both... according to the religion, you just have to choose if you already have two sexes, right, you just have to choose which one that you belong to and neglect the other so you have one identity, one sex and that is alright
so you choose, not your parents? yes, you choose. ah, that is beautiful. are you also gay? and muslim? and how do you feel about it? because he said that it is not very good, right that it is bad. it is not punishable, but it is bad...? how do you feel about it? yes, he's gay and muslim but he does not feel uncomfortable not coming out,
so he's not showing, he's not letting others know that he's gay and he does not suffer from not telling or not having any friends or family members know that he is gay according to the religion it's a bad thing yeah, but how does he feel? beside society, besides not coming out but how does he feel with himself is it a clash between his personal beliefs and his personal identity?
yeah, if they can choose they rather be straight, to have relationship with female to feel as a straight person, he would like to choose that for example, if he's straight he can also follow the choice that he would like to become a teacher, but because of his appearance shows that he cannot be what does he mean by his appearance?
he asked me if by his appearance i could identify if they were gay or not and i said no but then he also said.. verbally, by the tone of voice by their gesture... it is not too masculine. the rumors and then they say that if you are a gay teacher you are not accepted students should not study from them because they are not a good role model and then the second thing is that according to the principle of the religion being transgender is sinful, but being gay and dress like a guy is still acceptable according to the facts/the religion but not everyone knows that people say that if you are gay you are bad, but the theory doesn't say that
is he able to tell me exactly where the koran says that? so there is a part saying that a guy should not copy or imitate female behavior or dress code if you do so then it is sinful that is what the koran says but there is no other things - so nothing to do with gay- yes, but because of the stereotype in society thinks that it is already like including gay and trans and all together so they perceive that gay is not good
and do you believe you were born this way or why do you think you are gay? because if you think it is bad then why he said that because we choose, we choose to be gay so it is an option... he chooses to be gay and god will change you if you change yourself so god will not change you if you don't yeah if you don't change yourself
do you understand? no. so he said he does not choose. if he could choose, he does not want to be gay and that he was not born being gay okay, he was not born this way-yes he doesn't agree with lady gaga so i asked if he does not choose to become gay and he was not born with it so how can he become, how can he say he is gay so he said that because of the sexual arousal, he does not have with a female
the sexual arousal he has wis with a male so, yes it is a choice because the chemicals in the body physically, you are just being aroused by the male so it is not a choice, right...? is it a choice?! because if it is a chemical thing you don't control, right? yea - so it is not a choice.- it is not a choice it is a condition, they did not say the word disease they have to control themselves, they have to control their feelings, their behavior not to fall for that
and do they follow that? he does, because he just realized he was gay when he came to bangkok before he had a girlfriend and he was not happy then he had a boyfriend and he was happier but after learning more knowing more about religion he cannot continue having a boyfriend because that is a sin they want to become straight, they want to have a family with female but they don't want to hurt female because they don't have the family towards a female
do they think that is allah's choice that their bodies don't feel attracted to women? he chooses to live with god and religion because this is a test from god to the gay people, if god wants to give this challenging test to them, they're willing to accept that. do they believe that in this lifetime they are able to change? or do they wait for... he said he cannot just change. he said that outside... not outside.. that the image he might be able to change but inside, deep down inside he already knows he can't
so it is a sad story yes, they repeated that this is a sad story why did god choose them for this challenge? individuals have different tests given from god for both of them god must have wanted to give them this challenge for others might be poverty did you ever face discrimination because you are a muslim here? ok... as muslim no, as gay muslim, it is among the muslims actually the discrimination, example of one is that
if you are doing muslim pray (pray, pray, pray!) there is the leader to lead the pray. if the one who is the leader is gay of if you have the personalities that portray that you are homosexual then you cannot be the leader. another example is that he cannot become a teacher they don't like that, right? do they accept it? they accept it. and do their parents know about... for his family, they know he likes guys
since he was young and but they also know that he's not though he's not gay who dresses like a girl who want to become a transgender, a trans woman then for him, the family doesn't know yeah because in the rural area outside of bangkok, lgbtq is one 'katoy' which is the transgender, so he just relates himself when he comes to bangkok and oh there are so many lgbtq
so according to them, if you are gay you are katoy - you are trans-yes, you are trans. you wanna be a woman. so his family does not understand/know he is seen as a well behaved masculine does he think that he is gonna talk about this to his parents? they would not be able to accept that how would they react? the parent would be devasted and disappointed
and according to religion as well. your parents know you are attracted to guys, he said... did you ever talk about that? never talked, but they know. how does he know? making fun or jokes about it. when he was a teenager his behavior was more out in the sense of being more feminine and his dad's reaction was anti-him like not caring, but once he 'improved' himself - i am using the exact word he used, improve -
then changed himself to be more masculine and dressed like guys and not out out in the behavior then there's more talking more conversation more caring. and he has quite a good relationship with the family because his family doesn't know, there is no change. he felt that when he was young his dad felt ashamed of him but now his dad is pretty proud of him because he is also taking care of him as well do you have any dream?
he wants to go to mecca. he wants to take care of his family and live within the religious way he doesn't want to be rich if god is gonna give him that, thanks god for that.. that would be god's gift for the test he has been put through and your dream? he also wants to go to mecca also live in religion take care of the family they also mentioned that the recent natural disasters made them really want more to live in the religion
natural disasters, earthquake, things that happen is a warning there is a mention in the koran the increasing of the girls becoming guys and the guys becoming girls the increasing numbers would be kind of warning as well then the dress code, the girls will dress less pieces inappropriate, a girl will dress like a guy that would like to become girl
this is also listed in the koran as a sign of the end of the world...? but how can they stop it? i mean since there are so many different people with different thoughts it must be hard to... so he mentioned that the belief says that there will be more female population than male so that is why they allow a guy to be married with four wives, so that can create the balance in society
according to the rules the first wife has to allow to have the second wife and then you can also marry a widow in the sense of helping them if the husband passed away.. so they need to be taken care of (my feminism will come out right here, but ok, we can move on) that is my next question, if they think that men are better than women or if they have more important roles female cannot be a leader in islam because of the weakness in women, gossiping, sensitive, and also having a period. it might not be suitable to be..
and how it is for you to hear this as a woman? i am just curious i can take care of myself. thank you. [music]
how are you doing? i am good. this is long, this is weaw.good afternoon... this is our amazing friend and translator. hi marcel! good morning... afternoon. so we are back here to rainbow sky association
nightclubs in bangkok, this is a clinic and also an organization, and they do an amazing work on hiv they have hiv test here and i am gonna talk to two gay muslims, they feel more comfortable to be here. so that is why we are here. let's check it out. we have been talking throughout this journey about faith and religion and
i would like to ask you if you are religious if you consider yourself religious or if you have any faith very, he is very religious. if he was not working on the field of business he would become a religion teacher because he studies religion for 20 years and he is muslim, right? yes... pure muslim. he can answer every regulation, every rule
details of muslims every question you have or any doubt and are you also gay? yes. and how is it? do you feel comfortable in your religion to be gay? according to religion being gay is not good. it is bad, really bad but he also categorizes it into two parts: if you're gay and you dress like a woman
that is bad, you cannot, must not if you are gay, but you still dress like a man you will not get punishment from god and what about intersex? when they are born with both... according to the religion, you just have to choose if you already have two sexes, right, you just have to choose which one that you belong to and neglect the other so you have one identity, one sex and that is alright
so you choose, not your parents? yes, you choose. ah, that is beautiful. are you also gay? and muslim? and how do you feel about it? because he said that it is not very good, right that it is bad. it is not punishable, but it is bad...? how do you feel about it? yes, he's gay and muslim but he does not feel uncomfortable not coming out,
so he's not showing, he's not letting others know that he's gay and he does not suffer from not telling or not having any friends or family members know that he is gay according to the religion it's a bad thing yeah, but how does he feel? beside society, besides not coming out but how does he feel with himself is it a clash between his personal beliefs and his personal identity?
yeah, if they can choose they rather be straight, to have relationship with female to feel as a straight person, he would like to choose that for example, if he's straight he can also follow the choice that he would like to become a teacher, but because of his appearance shows that he cannot be what does he mean by his appearance?
he asked me if by his appearance i could identify if they were gay or not and i said no but then he also said.. verbally, by the tone of voice by their gesture... it is not too masculine. the rumors and then they say that if you are a gay teacher you are not accepted students should not study from them because they are not a good role model and then the second thing is that according to the principle of the religion being transgender is sinful, but being gay and dress like a guy is still acceptable according to the facts/the religion but not everyone knows that people say that if you are gay you are bad, but the theory doesn't say that
is he able to tell me exactly where the koran says that? so there is a part saying that a guy should not copy or imitate female behavior or dress code if you do so then it is sinful that is what the koran says but there is no other things - so nothing to do with gay- yes, but because of the stereotype in society thinks that it is already like including gay and trans and all together so they perceive that gay is not good
and do you believe you were born this way or why do you think you are gay? because if you think it is bad then why he said that because we choose, we choose to be gay so it is an option... he chooses to be gay and god will change you if you change yourself so god will not change you if you don't yeah if you don't change yourself
do you understand? no. so he said he does not choose. if he could choose, he does not want to be gay and that he was not born being gay okay, he was not born this way-yes he doesn't agree with lady gaga so i asked if he does not choose to become gay and he was not born with it so how can he become, how can he say he is gay so he said that because of the sexual arousal, he does not have with a female
the sexual arousal he has wis with a male so, yes it is a choice because the chemicals in the body physically, you are just being aroused by the male so it is not a choice, right...? is it a choice?! because if it is a chemical thing you don't control, right? yea - so it is not a choice.- it is not a choice it is a condition, they did not say the word disease they have to control themselves, they have to control their feelings, their behavior not to fall for that
and do they follow that? he does, because he just realized he was gay when he came to bangkok before he had a girlfriend and he was not happy then he had a boyfriend and he was happier but after learning more knowing more about religion he cannot continue having a boyfriend because that is a sin they want to become straight, they want to have a family with female but they don't want to hurt female because they don't have the family towards a female
do they think that is allah's choice that their bodies don't feel attracted to women? he chooses to live with god and religion because this is a test from god to the gay people, if god wants to give this challenging test to them, they're willing to accept that. do they believe that in this lifetime they are able to change? or do they wait for... he said he cannot just change. he said that outside... not outside.. that the image he might be able to change but inside, deep down inside he already knows he can't
so it is a sad story yes, they repeated that this is a sad story why did god choose them for this challenge? individuals have different tests given from god for both of them god must have wanted to give them this challenge for others might be poverty did you ever face discrimination because you are a muslim here? ok... as muslim no, as gay muslim, it is among the muslims actually the discrimination, example of one is that
if you are doing muslim pray (pray, pray, pray!) there is the leader to lead the pray. if the one who is the leader is gay of if you have the personalities that portray that you are homosexual then you cannot be the leader. another example is that he cannot become a teacher they don't like that, right? do they accept it? they accept it. and do their parents know about... for his family, they know he likes guys
since he was young and but they also know that he's not though he's not gay who dresses like a girl who want to become a transgender, a trans woman then for him, the family doesn't know yeah because in the rural area outside of bangkok, lgbtq is one 'katoy' which is the transgender, so he just relates himself when he comes to bangkok and oh there are so many lgbtq
so according to them, if you are gay you are katoy - you are trans-yes, you are trans. you wanna be a woman. so his family does not understand/know he is seen as a well behaved masculine does he think that he is gonna talk about this to his parents? they would not be able to accept that how would they react? the parent would be devasted and disappointed
and according to religion as well. your parents know you are attracted to guys, he said... did you ever talk about that? never talked, but they know. how does he know? making fun or jokes about it. when he was a teenager his behavior was more out in the sense of being more feminine and his dad's reaction was anti-him like not caring, but once he 'improved' himself - i am using the exact word he used, improve -
then changed himself to be more masculine and dressed like guys and not out out in the behavior then there's more talking more conversation more caring. and he has quite a good relationship with the family because his family doesn't know, there is no change. he felt that when he was young his dad felt ashamed of him but now his dad is pretty proud of him because he is also taking care of him as well do you have any dream?
he wants to go to mecca. he wants to take care of his family and live within the religious way he doesn't want to be rich if god is gonna give him that, thanks god for that.. that would be god's gift for the test he has been put through and your dream? he also wants to go to mecca also live in religion take care of the family they also mentioned that the recent natural disasters made them really want more to live in the religion
natural disasters, earthquake, things that happen is a warning there is a mention in the koran the increasing of the girls becoming guys and the guys becoming girls the increasing numbers would be kind of warning as well then the dress code, the girls will dress less pieces inappropriate, a girl will dress like a guy that would like to become girl
this is also listed in the koran as a sign of the end of the world...? but how can they stop it? i mean since there are so many different people with different thoughts it must be hard to... so he mentioned that the belief says that there will be more female population than male so that is why they allow a guy to be married with four wives, so that can create the balance in society
according to the rules the first wife has to allow to have the second wife and then you can also marry a widow in the sense of helping them if the husband passed away.. so they need to be taken care of (my feminism will come out right here, but ok, we can move on) that is my next question, if they think that men are better than women or if they have more important roles female cannot be a leader in islam because of the weakness in women, gossiping, sensitive, and also having a period. it might not be suitable to be..
and how it is for you to hear this as a woman? i am just curious i can take care of myself. thank you. [music]