THE GAME ISN'T OVER WHEN THE FAT GUY KISSES THE SCHIST
Listen up. All those DONT'S National Parks set upwardly nearly hiking the Grand Canyon are aimed at blokes similar large Bob from Biloxi amongst his bountiful beer belly – dude mightiness receive got aced a below-rim walk 10 years agone when he was a BCU linebacker, but that was thus – these days he’s gonna go the foremost to head-butt the trail on employment concern human relationship he aint precisely inwards goodness condition. And Canyon rangers are less than whelmed hauling 250lb dudes onto the medivac ‘copter.
Hence their warnings – DON’T acquire to a greater extent than than 1 sixty minutes below the rim, DON’T acquire below the rim at all inwards summer, DON'T go on the trail betwixt 1000 as well as 1500 as well as DON’T acquire alone. Well at 1 calendar month brusk of my 70th birthday I ignored all that. I was below the rim for over nine daylight hours traveling some fourteen miles (23km). So your large Grand Canyon trekking invention is non necessarily out the window - I’m certain most of yous tin produce similar amongst adequate preparation.
First the negatives: it was a hot solar daytime inwards mid August. Like many geezers my knees are dodgy from every bit good much jogging when immature as well as my feet are non inwards peculiarly goodness shape – some arthritic bumps, as well as a few gnarly toe nails signal inwards the incorrect direction. I’m non a regular trekker. I alive at body of body of water floor as well as receive got no thought nearly the comport upon of altitude. I’ve never trekked the desert but I’m no stranger to hot days.
The positives: I’m used to exercising inwards hot humid weather condition which I reckon are just every bit trying every bit really hot dry out ones. I’m extremely check from daily swimming as well as cycling as well as decided to piece of work on my trekking amongst some pretty difficult 1 to 4 sixty minutes walks around my super hilly dwelling employment solid town every 2nd solar daytime loaded downwardly amongst nearly a gallon (4 L) of H2O as well as some eats. I receive got to tell you, H2O is heavy stuff. At the destination of iii weeks of this I was thus check I had muscles on my boogers. I'm commonly 1 of those dudes aspect similar an overtrained, underfed greyhound but at the destination of all the extra piece of work I people were mistaking me for Iggy Pop's pop.
Hey, maybe non his pop. I just read Iggy is almost every bit old every bit me. Kinda looks it. So moving-picture present this dude amongst white whiskers, a buzz cutting as well as an fifty-fifty to a greater extent than shell upwardly head, as well as yous receive got the....um....picture. That arm bandage looks a flake dodgy (image TwentyFourBit)
I invested inwards a goodness pair of mid-range trekking shoes as well as some cushioned hiking socks, trekking poles as well as a hydration pack. Sipping every few minutes without interrupting progress is the agency to go. I also had plenty of electrolyte. Plus trail mix as well as a span of commercial ability bars which I munched often whether hungry or not. Altitude proved no employment – maybe because I had 2 days inwards nearby Flagstaff addition the previous solar daytime trekking the Canyon rim trail for nearly seven hours to acclimatize.
An of import signal - I trimmed my toe nails every bit brusk every bit possible. Even good-fitting shoes volition consider long (or fifty-fifty ordinary length) nails banging upwardly against the front end on sustained steep downslopes - they tin acquire miserably sore.
THE ROUTE.
One DON'T I didn't ignore - DON'T endeavour to hike downwardly to the river as well as dorsum inwards 1 day.
It wasn't that I thought I couldn't produce it amongst adequate preparation - to a greater extent than the fact that I didn't desire to wreck myself upwardly on employment concern human relationship I had some large treks planned for Yosemite as well as Mt Whitney inwards the next week. Plus I read the whole matter takes xv hours** as well as I wanted to go on the (return leg) upper Bright Angel Trail before dark - at that topographic point are some killer views upwardly there.
**Having done maybe 3/4 of a river-return I reckon 11/12 hours is to a greater extent than similar it.
So I decided on a truncated deep canyon walk - downwardly the South Kaibab Trail to the Tonto Platform which is nearly 70% downwardly canyon, across the Tonto Trail to Indian Garden, as well as thus dorsum upwardly the Bright Angel Trail to the rim.
Map's ruby route shows the total river-return loop but yous tin consider the Tonto Trail meandering its agency betwixt the 2 chief trails (it truly continues both sides for a goodness 50km+)
All the experts suggest going DOWN the Sth Kaibab on employment concern human relationship it has no water, really fiddling shade as well as is steeper than the Bright Angel. The latter has H2O at iii places on the ascent as well as far to a greater extent than shade from side canyons (image HikingOC)
For to a greater extent than exceptional this topographic map of the expanse does nicely - if yous acquire to the master copy at http://files.meetup.com/1554500/GrandCanyon_BrightAngel_Kaibab.jpg it click expands nicely 1 time open.An of import signal - I trimmed my toe nails every bit brusk every bit possible. Even good-fitting shoes volition consider long (or fifty-fifty ordinary length) nails banging upwardly against the front end on sustained steep downslopes - they tin acquire miserably sore.
THE ROUTE.
One DON'T I didn't ignore - DON'T endeavour to hike downwardly to the river as well as dorsum inwards 1 day.
It wasn't that I thought I couldn't produce it amongst adequate preparation - to a greater extent than the fact that I didn't desire to wreck myself upwardly on employment concern human relationship I had some large treks planned for Yosemite as well as Mt Whitney inwards the next week. Plus I read the whole matter takes xv hours** as well as I wanted to go on the (return leg) upper Bright Angel Trail before dark - at that topographic point are some killer views upwardly there.
**Having done maybe 3/4 of a river-return I reckon 11/12 hours is to a greater extent than similar it.
So I decided on a truncated deep canyon walk - downwardly the South Kaibab Trail to the Tonto Platform which is nearly 70% downwardly canyon, across the Tonto Trail to Indian Garden, as well as thus dorsum upwardly the Bright Angel Trail to the rim.
All the experts suggest going DOWN the Sth Kaibab on employment concern human relationship it has no water, really fiddling shade as well as is steeper than the Bright Angel. The latter has H2O at iii places on the ascent as well as far to a greater extent than shade from side canyons (image HikingOC)
THE SOUTH KAIBAB TRAIL
I deliberately ignored all the advice nearly a sunrise start [this gets trekkers off the trails (if they are non trying the total river loop or my truncated route) before it gets every bit good hot]. I didn’t desire to haul myself out of my sleeping handbag at 4am - it tin acquire existent mutual coldness (near freezing before the Sun gets a remove chances to warm things up) inwards a tent upwardly on the high rim fifty-fifty inwards August.
Plus I figured a afterwards start would ease the temptation to maintain going yesteryear the Tonto junction to the river, on to Phantom Ranch as well as thus dorsum upwardly the Bright Angel Trail – every bit said that would entail a longer hike as well as maybe wreck me for several large upcoming treks. Or miss the bang-up views on the upper Bright Angel due to darkness.
For the same reasons I took my machine to nigh the Kaibab trail caput rather than the shuttle double-decker That would strength me to go out of the canyon reasonably early on thus every bit non to miss the in conclusion shuttle across from the Bright Angel trailhead to retrieve the machine – I didn’t fancy a 3+mi/4.8+km walk after to a greater extent than than 8 hours inwards the canyon. As it turned out, parking problems saw me dump the rental nearly a mile from the Kaibab trail caput – what’s an extra mile at the start of a fourteen mile trek?
Once at the trailhead I topped upwardly my H2O supplies as well as striking the rails at 8.36 am.
Kaibab trailhead is slightly higher than Bright Angel’s at 7200ft/2195m as well as the walk to the Tonto Trail junction at 4000ft/1220m is a flake shorter at 4.4m/7.1km, making the Kaibab steeper on average than the Bright Angle - considerably thus inwards parts. It is also rougher, peculiarly around O’Neill Butte and below Skeleton Point, but I wouldn’t telephone telephone whatsoever department unpleasant underfoot as well as I receive got dodgy knees/feet. Because the trail mainly sticks to a ridge the views are arguably improve than Bright Angel’s side canyon route, but I constitute the latter hardly shabby. There is agency less shade as well as no H2O the whole agency to Indian Garden 8.8mi/14.3km from the start. So select a fair bit. I had just nether a US of America gallon/4L. I was surprised at that topographic point was silent nearly 2L left at Indian Garden.
Despite the fact I’m no Speedy Gonzales I reached Ooh-Aah Point pretty chop-chop – it’s only 0.9m/1.5km as well as a driblet of 600ft/190m – at that topographic point is no sign but yous know yous are at that topographic point because the persuasion widens into ooh-aah status. There are bang-up views nearly all the residue of the agency but Cedar Ridge (1.5mi/2.5km from the top – 1140ft/350M below the rim – reached inwards 55m as well as Skeleton Point (3mi/4.9km – 2060ft/630m – 1hr50m) are standouts – Skeleton Point gives foremost persuasion of the river. There is a restroom at the former.
Fellow trekkers receive got a residue at Cedar Ridge. Opening shot upwardly page was also taken from this area.
Shortly after Skeleton Point I striking these numerous as well as rather steep switchbacks. This department has in all probability the roughest rails weather condition underfoot but non what I would degree a hassle. Lots of stone as well as timber step-downs, mainly unmarried although often closed but I can’t think whatsoever steep stairways. And really few of the step-downs had large knee-wrecking vertical drops. I think yous tin get to consider why the experts recommend going DOWN the South Kalib. The Bright Angel has some bang-up switchbacks, but the slope is less than the above.
The 2nd of 2 mule trains I met during my nearly iii hours on the South Kaibab. The foremost was carrying baggage - inwards a higher house nosotros receive got a bunch of people returning from overnighting at Phantom Ranch.
Dude inwards accuse was stopping often to give detailed information to grouping - they must receive got left the ranch existent early on because they were non making fast progress - although faster than I could walk out. Hey, Biloxi Bob tin brand it downwardly as well as dorsum this agency (at a price).
There was only a moderate set out of people heading downwardly the rails (probably to a greater extent than amongst a sunrise start) - I winced at the 4 joggers who overtook me: promise they don’t destination upwardly amongst knees similar mine (you know that old dude yous consider fanging around your shopping centre on a sit-down skateboard using hands for propulsion – the 1 who is e'er getting busted yesteryear the cops for biting pretty girls as well as safety goons on the knees? He was a canyon jogger).
Whoa! These maniacs run dorsum upwardly every bit good - non every bit difficult on the knees but pretty taxing on the fitness. I think I operate to run hills on my treks dorsum inwards the solar daytime - none amongst the length of these though. I was a flake irksome amongst my photographic telly camera on the joggers - had to borrow this from 123RF.
There was only a moderate set out of people heading downwardly the rails (probably to a greater extent than amongst a sunrise start) - I winced at the 4 joggers who overtook me: promise they don’t destination upwardly amongst knees similar mine (you know that old dude yous consider fanging around your shopping centre on a sit-down skateboard using hands for propulsion – the 1 who is e'er getting busted yesteryear the cops for biting pretty girls as well as safety goons on the knees? He was a canyon jogger).
I blocked the urge to acquire the brusk distance to the Droppoff amongst its views of the river because I knew amongst only a farther sixty minutes as well as 1.8m/2.9km walk – 1600ft/490m driblet to the Colorado I wouldn’t go able to resist going on down. So I wandered around the residue area, rehydrated as well as refuelled on trail mix/power bars as well as thus laid off across the Tonto Trail at 11.43am.
THE TONTO TRAIL
Straight trace distance betwixt the 2 trails is only 2.2 miles/3.5km but because the Tonto winds dorsum towards the rim cliffs to clear iii side canyons, total walking length is 4.2m/6.8km.
Please excuse amateurish graphics - I'm silent trying to instruct myself how to operate the PAINT thingy on my basic Windows photograph editor.
This may brand it a flake clearer
I modified this Google globe epitome to present much the same thing, The yellowish rails is of course of teaching the Tonto, white the Sth Kaibab as well as bluish the Bright Angel. The river tin go seen top left. The (fainltly visible) apartment trail out to Plateau Point leaves the western extension of the Tonto at left.
It's difficult to set a linear scale on these images amongst lots of vertical relief - the straight trace distance from the Indian Garden place-marker at left to the Trail junction marking at correct is 2.2miles/3.5km
The trail is pretty apartment – the only sustained uphill department was out of the biggest side-canyon but this volition only receive got Biloxi Bill moaning - as well as wiiide William moans when he turns over inwards bed. In the contrary management the climb out of Indian Garden is similar – btw the Tonto hits the Bright Angel trail at Indian Garden nearly 10 minutes southward of the H2O supply/camping/ranger areas.
There is virtually no shade along the Tonto as well as patently it is often inwards a higher house 100F/38c inwards summertime (felt mid 90s when I crossed) – all the same the best house to halt for a refresh is at the halfway signal - the western Pipe Ck canyon caput where at that topographic point are a few trees for shade. Water was running hither thus if yous select some purifying tablets yous don’t receive got to send quite every bit much from the top to brand Indian Garden. All creek crossings were slow although snowfall melt time may go different. There were no problems amongst thorns etc which tin crusade hassles on less-traveled sections of the Tonto.
I arrived at the junction at 2pm - taking out maybe 10 minutes for photographic as well as refreshment stops the 4.2m/6.8km. had taken me a flake over 2 hours.
I saw no other individual on the Tonto.
Indian Garden is a neat fiddling oasis which lines the gushing Bright Angel Creek for over a km. The camping ground as well as ranger expanse takes a pocket-sized proportion of this.
It is slow to consider why the Hopi indians used to farm this area.The lower shot also shows the rails out to Plateau Point (top right) as well as the relatively gentle Bright Angel trail the foremost few km towards the rim at bottom (looks similar 2 tracks but 1 is the creek)
** 1 liter would receive got done it but I carried a reserve inwards representative 1 of the H2O heads was out of action
I was silent feeling pretty goodness but resisted the 3m/4.8km render trip out to Plateau Point’s views of the river every bit I wanted to brand the rim before sunset.
There were few people at Indian Garden. Hikers who leave of absence the canyon bottom as well as Indian Garden camping ground expanse at foremost low-cal would receive got been long gone - those waiting for the cool of belatedly afternoon to hike upwardly from the Colorado would non acquire inwards until nigh sunset. And it is every bit good far downwardly from the rim for most solar daytime hikers.
THE BRIGHT ANGEL TRAIL
I started my ascent from Indian Garden (which is 4.6 miles/7.5km below the rim as well as 1.5m/2.4km inwards a higher house the Colorado River) at 2.40 pm.
The foremost quarter of the hike out from the Gardens is pretty slow – upwardly moderate slopes beside the creek – fifty-fifty my svelte-challenged mate Kananga (who has never failed to completely surroundings a 12inch/30cm coconut-cream pie inwards 1 sitting) would produce this amongst only 1 or 2 pit stops.
els
images Bob's Pixels
The trail itself is inwards pretty goodness status amongst few stone oil sections although at that topographic point is no shortage of those step-ups (fortunately mainly singles – I can’t think whatsoever steep staircases). And the goodness tidings is that this belatedly inwards the August afternoon the I shortly acquire into the shadow of the rim (earlier inwards the day, side-canyon walls give a fair flake of shade).
I had to contestation the photographic telly camera to acquire it all inwards - should go a goodness pic to click-expand.
From around the One as well as a Half Mile residue halt the trail got busier – it was clear that a fair few people were doing an afternoon hike downwardly from the rim. Many were inwards non peculiarly goodness shape as well as a lot had inadequate H2O as well as unsuitable footwear. Unfit most were but they seemed to walk faster than my shuffle - all the same I shortly passed them because of their frequent stops.
I finally topped out at 5.50 pm nearly 9.5 hours after I started at South Kaibab trail head. I was in all probability walking for 8 3/4 of those.It took me iii hours (after taking out five minutes at each residue stop) to walk upwardly from Indian Garden – that’s just over 1.5mph/2.4kph which is closed to my average downwardly the South Kaibab as well as across the Tonto.
By the fourth dimension I got dorsum to the campground, showered as well as changed it was good after dark. I was busting for a feed as well as a mutual coldness beer. The only closed yesteryear was at Yavapi Lodge’s cafeteria – I constitute it overcrowded, the nutrient ordinary as well as overpriced, as well as to add together insult to injury they served me a warm beer. Hell, if I desire warm beer I’ll acquire to England.
REFLECTIONS
Next solar daytime I expected to go aching all over (an old guy on the rim trail the solar daytime before told me I'd go doing the 'Kaibab shuffle' for weeks) but apart from sore feet I felt surprisingly good. All that preparation pays dividends.
Could I receive got done it without extra training? I think yes, but I reckon I would receive got suffered later.
Could a individual of normal fitness produce it? Um, probably, but they would receive got to brand lots of residue stops as well as would wreck themselves upwardly for a long time.
Would under-fit (which for many is normal-fitness) people produce it? No way.
In all cases I’m assuming similar hydration as well as tucker choices to me.
In all cases I’m assuming similar hydration as well as tucker choices to me.
Given my extra training, could I receive got done the total loop to the river as well as dorsum inwards a day? I think so, but I reckon I could receive got ended upwardly amongst a prolonged representative of Kaibab shuffle. Thing is, when I topped out at the Bright Angel rim I was start to think I'd had plenty of hauling myself uphill - an enjoyable physical challenge was closed to turning into a difficult slog. To the river as well as dorsum may receive got been a few (thousand) steps every bit good far.
Are walking poles necessary? They were a assist on slopes, as well as later, on a slippery treacherous downslope inwards Yosemite they definitely saved me from a fall, but I reckon I could receive got done the Canyon without them. However they mightiness brand the divergence for marginal trekkers as well as may go 1 argue why my knees didn't suffer.
Hydration pack? More a convenience to salve fourth dimension on the frequent rehydration the experts urge.
Good shoes? I’m amazed how good mine remove hold a slippery rails compared to normal joggers. And combined amongst the cushioned socks as well as maybe the poles I reckon they helped salve my knees.
Hell to come upwardly out of that walk without sore knees gave me such a high I needed a pace ladder to scratch my arse.
THE RIM TRAIL
Biloxi Bill as well as friends should non go disheartened - the really best views of the canyon are from the Rim Trail which winds some 11miles/18km along the southward rim. There are nearly xv viewpoints along hither (plus a heap to a greater extent than unofficial outlooks into the canyon) as well as for a goodness bargain of the journeying the trail is similar to the inwards a higher house - sealed as well as relatively flat.
Frequent gratuitous shuttle buses run along roads inwards dorsum stopping at all viewpoints - some stops are only inwards 1 management thus depository fiscal establishment check the super-useful information sail yous acquire when entering the park).
Bicycling the rim is pop (hire bikes available inwards the village) but seldom on the rim trail itself. Shuttle buses receive got wheel racks for Biloxi types who endure pedal fatigue.
A few of the western viewpoints are joined yesteryear an unsealed rim trail. People amongst really immature kids should maybe avoid. And this is no house for Kananga to receive got a fainting fit.
The Rim Trail runs from Hermits Rest inwards the W toYaki Point inwards the east. Grand Canyon hamlet is roughly fundamental (image University of Arizona)
There is a bigger, to a greater extent than detailed version of the inwards a higher house amongst all viewpoints, shuttle double-decker as well as other extra information on the National Park website (and yous tin click it to expand).
There are thus many bang-up outlooks along hither it's slow to o/d on them - I liked this westward looking persuasion from Mohave Point on employment concern human relationship the Colorado was easily visible mid-distance (click-expand).
But arguably, the really foremost persuasion most visitors see, Mather Point - a five infinitesimal good sign-posted walk from the foremost large parking expanse after the southward gate (main) entrance - is just every bit spectacular.
Another squeamish 1 - this 1 is from the 1 of those many unofficial lookouts on the border of the rim trail just northward of the Abyss viewpoint. I'm thinking the belatedly afternoon fourth dimension of shot is contributing to the pic.
Late afternoon on the Rim Trail: my trip the low-cal fantastic toe bill of fare that solar daytime was pretty full. I left Flagstaff before 0800 inwards gild to acquire inwards at the southward entrance to the Canyon early on - I'd heard at that topographic point tends to go large delays afterwards inwards the day. Around 0900 - no problems.
Drove to the foremost parking lot, only 5mins walk to the Rim Trail at Mather Point, headed west. Over the adjacent 7+ hours I checked the to a greater extent than than a dozen viewpoints as well as the agency to a greater extent than unofficial lookouts to the W (I managed to comprehend the ones to the eastward adjacent solar daytime on the agency to the Sth Kaibab trailhead for the large down-canyon trek).
I mainly walked the Rim Trail, but used the frequent shuttles to backtrack/sometimes natural springtime ahead. Logistics hateful that occasionally I had to double walk a department betwixt viewpoints, as well as maybe missed walking 2 brusk sections.
All of this was really time-consuming - yesteryear the fourth dimension I caught the shuttle to the machine commons as well as drove to Mather army camp Blue Planet it was dark. Have I mentioned how I abhor setting upwardly tents inwards the dark?
Once I laid up, I invited neighbouring campers around for a beer.
(image The Mad Men Review)
DESERT VIEW DRIVE
Some farther rim-top views tin go seen along this route which leads from Grand Canyon Village to the lesser used eastern commons entrance. I used this to acquire out the commons on employment concern human relationship I wanted to cruise Wapaki Monument/Sunset Canyon Drive which loops off highway 89 on the agency southward to Flagstaff. You tin consider the loop nether UNEXPECTED GEMS 20% from the top of my THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY page
There are vi viewpoints along this 25mile/40km route - most are pretty goodness but non a pace upwardly from the Rim Trail average. An exception is the in conclusion one, nearest the eastern entrance - called just DESERT VIEW, it singles itself out yesteryear existence the highest signal on the southern rim (7438ft/2267m) amongst fabulous views to the northward as well as eastward as well as having the DESERT VIEW WATCH TOWER (image - National Park Service)
The tower was built yesteryear Mary Colter inwards the early on '30s inwards the trend of Pueblo watchtowers both internally as well as externally. It is situated nigh the border of the rim - the rooftop has truly great....
....views to the northward east. Note river inwards mid-distance.
One of several internal levels.
IF YOU SEE MISTAKES OR HAVE ADDITIONAL INFO PLEASE MENTION THEM BELOW - BUT PLEASE DIRECT ANY QUESTIONS TO THE FORUM SECTION - I DON'T LOOK AT THESE INDIVIDUAL PAGES VERY OFTEN BUT I CHECK THE FORUM MOST DAYS.
THE RIM TRAIL
Frequent gratuitous shuttle buses run along roads inwards dorsum stopping at all viewpoints - some stops are only inwards 1 management thus depository fiscal establishment check the super-useful information sail yous acquire when entering the park).
Bicycling the rim is pop (hire bikes available inwards the village) but seldom on the rim trail itself. Shuttle buses receive got wheel racks for Biloxi types who endure pedal fatigue.
There is a bigger, to a greater extent than detailed version of the inwards a higher house amongst all viewpoints, shuttle double-decker as well as other extra information on the National Park website (and yous tin click it to expand).
But arguably, the really foremost persuasion most visitors see, Mather Point - a five infinitesimal good sign-posted walk from the foremost large parking expanse after the southward gate (main) entrance - is just every bit spectacular.
Late afternoon on the Rim Trail: my trip the low-cal fantastic toe bill of fare that solar daytime was pretty full. I left Flagstaff before 0800 inwards gild to acquire inwards at the southward entrance to the Canyon early on - I'd heard at that topographic point tends to go large delays afterwards inwards the day. Around 0900 - no problems.
Drove to the foremost parking lot, only 5mins walk to the Rim Trail at Mather Point, headed west. Over the adjacent 7+ hours I checked the to a greater extent than than a dozen viewpoints as well as the agency to a greater extent than unofficial lookouts to the W (I managed to comprehend the ones to the eastward adjacent solar daytime on the agency to the Sth Kaibab trailhead for the large down-canyon trek).
I mainly walked the Rim Trail, but used the frequent shuttles to backtrack/sometimes natural springtime ahead. Logistics hateful that occasionally I had to double walk a department betwixt viewpoints, as well as maybe missed walking 2 brusk sections.
All of this was really time-consuming - yesteryear the fourth dimension I caught the shuttle to the machine commons as well as drove to Mather army camp Blue Planet it was dark. Have I mentioned how I abhor setting upwardly tents inwards the dark?
(image The Mad Men Review)
DESERT VIEW DRIVE
Some farther rim-top views tin go seen along this route which leads from Grand Canyon Village to the lesser used eastern commons entrance. I used this to acquire out the commons on employment concern human relationship I wanted to cruise Wapaki Monument/Sunset Canyon Drive which loops off highway 89 on the agency southward to Flagstaff. You tin consider the loop nether UNEXPECTED GEMS 20% from the top of my THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY page
IF YOU SEE MISTAKES OR HAVE ADDITIONAL INFO PLEASE MENTION THEM BELOW - BUT PLEASE DIRECT ANY QUESTIONS TO THE FORUM SECTION - I DON'T LOOK AT THESE INDIVIDUAL PAGES VERY OFTEN BUT I CHECK THE FORUM MOST DAYS.